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Old 05-11-2009
wvuguy wvuguy is offline
 
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Default Yellow vs white carnauba, addition of exotic oils

The other day, I came across a California Car Cover catalog from several years ago, and it had almost a full page on competitive (not made by CCC) wax products. In this 2005 catalog, some of these wax products were differentiated from one another through the use.....in varying concentrations.....of so-called "yellow" and "white" carnauba, as well as with (in some cases) blends of the two. They also make a point to mention additives like almond, coconut, banana, and sunflower oils in their more expensive products.

While I presume that white and yellow carnauba are indeed legitimately different forms of this wax, something tells me that carnaubas are largely carnaubas.....no matter what color they are.....as it applies to car waxes. And, while the referenced oils may indeed provide some softening characteristic (or perhaps add fragrance) to the product itself.....or make these products more suitable than similar products as a skin moisturizer.....I personally find it very hard to believe they add anything to the product's effectiveness as a paint finish enhancer/protector.

Am I correct here ??
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Old 05-12-2009
Mama's Boy Mama's Boy is offline
 
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Default Re: Yellow vs white carnauba, addition of exotic oils

I can't say from insider experience or even hands on experience with "raw" waxes, but I recall Forrest mentioning that as far as he could ascertain, there was no such thing as a "white" grade of carnauba. The closest he could say was possibly bleaching #1 yellow to look pale. As to the oils, again, no experience in the lab here, but if an oil adds "wetness" or a greasiness, or in some way changes the look of the surface it's applied to, wouldn't that add to/affect the products finish enhancing abilities?
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Old 05-12-2009
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abnot abnot is online now
 
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Default Re: Yellow vs white carnauba, addition of exotic oils

You can tell there is just too much hype over wax chemistry and most seems to be related to being able to charge a lot more for it.

It may be interesting discussion but in the end you could likely get a lifetime supply for many people of any Mothers wax you want for the price of some "premium" wax with ingredients more like a hand lotion in a wooden box with a certificate suitable for framing.
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Old 05-12-2009
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TonyfromOz TonyfromOz is offline
 
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Default Re: Yellow vs white carnauba, addition of exotic oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by abnot
You can tell there is just too much hype over wax chemistry and most seems to be related to being able to charge a lot more for it.

It may be interesting discussion but in the end you could likely get a lifetime supply for many people of any Mothers wax you want for the price of some "premium" wax with ingredients more like a hand lotion in a wooden box with a certificate suitable for framing.
I agree wholeheartedly with both of these statements from Al.
I've said often here at the Forum that you need to understand the nature of the product.
Carnauba comes from the Copernicia Prunifera tree. (INCI name Copernicia Cerifera) As it says when you go to the site for this tree, it states that it is the source for Carnauba Wax. It also says :
Quote:
It is known as "queen of waxes" and usually comes in the form of hard yellow-brown flakes. It is obtained from the leaves of the carnauba palm by collecting them, beating them to loosen the wax, then refining and bleaching the wax.
Note the word 'bleaching'.

I hope you don't mind if I mention some Science here.

The leaves of the tree (any tree, any green plant) are part of its breathing process, or how that tree grows, a little like the way we breathe oxygen. They breathe through their leaves, photosynthesis.
In the morning when the Sun comes up, the light activates the process, sort of like turning it on, because they lie dormant in the dark. The green leaves take in Carbon Dioxide (CO2) from the surrounding air, and the Carbon part of that is then 'fixed' into the tree, in the wood, and the Oxygen component released back into the surrounding atmosphere.
The leaves of this Copernicia have developed a protection mechanism so that the leaves of the tree are not burned by the harsh heat and conditions of Equatorial Brazil. That mechanism is the very thin wax coating on those leaves, that protection ensuring the leaves stay at their maximum and pristine size, so that they can 'absorb' the CO2 and thus fix the Carbon.
This wax is the Carnauba wax common in literally hundreds of appliacations, one of them the wax we use for our cars.

As stated in the quote, the leaves are harvested, and shaken for the removal of the hard flakes of the wax.

The wax is then processed. (in numerous ways for the numerous applications) For car wax it has other things added, mainly so it can actually be made viable for application.

You apply it to your car, the other things 'flash off' and you then use a MF cloth to remove the wax, leaving a very thin hard shell, somehat similar to what was protecting the leaves on the tree in the first place, only now protecting your car's paint from the elements.

The fact that it provides a brilliant shine is the added extra.

Now, as Al mentions in the first statement, 'hype' and 'charge a lot more for it'.
I humbly apologise to my friend at Admin for posting a link to another Company's site showing their product, but go to this site and look at that product, and when you come back here, go and read what Al said, and what I second.
This product retails in Australia for $3,750. If I spend that much on every car care product for every application over the rest of my life, my good lady wife might have something to say, and for that fact, so would I.

I might go so far as to say that if two similar cars were parked side by side, one treated with this product and one with the products we use, I might suggest that an uninitiated person would be hard pressed to pick the difference between them.

My dream car is a '67 E Type Jaguar Coupe, and if I had one of them, I would use the same products on that as I currently use on my 8 year old Holden Astra.

Be comfortable with the product you use, be aware of what it does, and be aware of what you want, and how much you are 'willing' to spend.

I am.

Tony.

Apologies to all of you for the Science part, and to my friend at Admin for the link.
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Old 05-15-2009
wvuguy wvuguy is offline
 
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Default Re: Yellow vs white carnauba, addition of exotic oils

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyfromOz View Post
[
I humbly apologise to my friend at Admin for posting a link to another Company's site showing their product, but go to this site and look at that product, and when you come back here, go and read what Al said, and what I second.
This product retails in Australia for $3,750.

I'll see your Divine and raise you a Royale

http://www.amazon.com/Zymol-12001-Ro.../dp/B000F3K0T8

I'm particularly pleased to see it is "suitable for all paint types and colors.....I think I'd be a little PO'd if I'd dropped 8G's on this stuff and found out if wasn't any good for use on my Buick.

Be sure to read about some of the crap they put in this stuff under the section "Product Description". Not sure why you couldn't use all those oils and botanicals to cure your baby's diaper rash, or perhaps to get a tan.
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Old 05-15-2009
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TonyfromOz TonyfromOz is offline
 
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Default Re: Yellow vs white carnauba, addition of exotic oils

I think we have effectively made the point on this subject, so maybe we might leave it just as a reference and go on to detailing matters that we can give good advice on.

If there is one single thing I have learned at this forum, it's the nature of the product you are using.

There will always be arguments about this Carnauba 'thing'. No matter how much is 'claimed' to be in the mix, think of where it came from and what it was doing there.

As part of the internal DNA mechanism of the tree itself, it made just enough of the protective wax as it needed to protect the leaves from the Amazon heat. Tree (a) did not make any extra over tree (b), and the same applies for the protection on your car.

You apply it, and wipe it off and you are left with that thin layer of shiny protection. The Carnauba is ..... the Carnauba. You want more, then apply a second coat, but even then it doesn't need it if you work your car's paint correctly, and when you should.

For comparison, and here I'm referring to the advertising part of it, look at all the advertisements you see on TV for women's skin care products, (apologies to you Bridge) and see all the elaborate lengths they go to by including new miracle trademarked additives, each one different from the other Company's additives, and all doing basically the same thing, the only difference being the (increased) price.

I might suggest that the advertised late 20's Bugatti Royale, a truly beautiful car and years ahead of its time in styling would have had the same result with the products we so carefully use here.

Remember. The tree doesn't know.

Tony.

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Old 05-16-2009
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Alfisti Alfisti is offline
 
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Default Re: Yellow vs white carnauba, addition of exotic oils

That's one drop-dead gorgeous car!!!!
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