New Guy question, Really need some help

**Balucanb** · 04-19-2003, 09:40 AM

Hello,
I have read a lot but not all of the posts plus I regularly surf other boards also and I have yet to get a "good" answer to my question, I hope you folks can help. Here goes, I am not a pro but a I love my car and want it to look as nice as possible, so I have had a sears orbital, and now know that I really need something better, I have been researching several but had knocked it down to the PC and the Cyclo. My understanding is these are both orbital and pretty much stupid proof, BUT, reading here and a few other places I am beginning to wonder if I should be looking at a rotary! But they scare me. ( and my paint is scared too!) Is there really that big a diff? What do you reccomend and why? If it helps I am working with a 98 Arctic Silver 528i it is well maintained but has not been garaged, and to complicate things I live in Germany right now, and it is against the law in most places to wash your car anywhere except a auto car wash!! So that adds to the whole maintaining problem. BTW I still hand wash when I can. Sorry I got a bit long winded, any advice/help is Welcome. Thanx and I really lkie this board.

**JeffBruce** · 04-19-2003, 10:08 AM

Hummmm..this story sounds familar...
I too started with a sears orbital..it is now in a box..
I then got a Porter cable 7424....then a second one ....ive sold the second one...

I then got a Makita rotary....I wouldn`t change the order a bit...
Porter cable first ...practice ..then Rotary...
Rotary can be real dangerous...Need to buy a hood or trunk to practice on...and tape off everything...and I have just learn`d how to limit splatter...

I think having both Porter cable and Rotary is important..if your serious..but don`t use rotary on your new car unless you`ve practice`d alot.....I think the rotary can do things the PC can`t...
I am very careful with the rotary,,,

jeff

**Anthony O.** · 04-19-2003, 10:39 PM

I will second Jeff`s advice that you stick with an orbital. like the Cyclo or the PC.

My choice would be the Cyclo as it can actually hold up the OPM`s under pressure and its dual action heads work the paint and product in a more efficient manner.

I also think that a polisher is secondary to your more obvious problem, which seems to be a place to actually wash and detail your car. Since your car is Artic Silver, which by the way is a great color, you will get great results by:
1) Proper washing
2) Claying
3) Cleaning & polishing of paint
4) Sealing finish (With a polymer sealant and/or a wax)

Steps one and two are very basic and the claying session is nothing to fear, just follow the instructions.

Steps 3 and 4 can get complicated if you allow it. Cleaning and polishing can be done in one step with products such as Klasse All in One, P21S Cleansing Lotion, Pinnacles Cleansing Lotion and Platinum Paint Cleaner. OR you can add after one of the above products a seperate glaze/polish such as Meguirs #3, # 9 or #7. The key to the second step is to determine what condition your paint is in after the claying session.

If you notice small numerous fine scratches and swirls in the paint then the first cleaning step will need to be something with an abrasive quality to it. Hi-Temps Light Cut is a very safe choice and can be used by hand also and followed up by the above mentioned glazes and polishes.

If your paint is in very sad shape, very deep scratches, tons of swirls, then you need the attention of a professional who is an expert in machine polishing.

Lastly, if, after the claying session, your paint is bright and clear, with real fine scratches then you can use a very mild pre-cleaner, such as Platinum Paint Cleaner and then go directly to a sealant, like Platinum Paint Protection.

Also, if washing your car is a problem outside of a lawful car wash then have it washed there, bring it home and finish your detailing. This is where a QD (Quick Detailer) spray comes in handy. Search this forum for hints and tips on its use.

Hope this helps,
Anthony

**Balucanb** · 04-20-2003, 05:11 AM

Anthony and Jeff Thanks. I have a question for you Anthony, or anyone I guess, I have been trying to decide as you know which polisher to buy I was leaning toward the the Cyclo but as of late have been having second thoughts. They both seem to be top notch. Other than the PC being a lot cheaper, what advantage does the Cyclo have other than the 2 heads? I ask because I am thinking that if it were really a big diff in quality everybody would manufactue them this way? I am starting to think that maybe the double head is more of a gimmick and a marketing ploy than a real advantage to the end result? Thoughts anyone?

**John Sharp** · 04-20-2003, 05:50 AM

Hi,

On the thought of the Cyclo. I own a PC but I wish I had the Cyclo instead. I have used both and the Cyclo allows the user to put more pressure on the machine while it still rotates the heads. The PC kind of wimps out when you lean on it while working the paint. What I mean is that when you push down on it it stops most of its rotating and just vibrates kind of. lol

Mabye I dont make alot of sense but what I mean is that the Cyclo handles the work load a little better.

I hope this helps. Either machine is nice and both are just helpers for whatever work you can normally do by hand. When you get the machine you wont start using it and seeing a HUGE difference between it and what you can do by hand. I use it to apply a wax or sealant in a hurry when I dont feel like covering a large area by hand. Like when I am doing a large truck or mabye a camper. It is a time saver for me but I dont get it out very often anymore.

John

wayne · 04-20-2003, 09:03 AM

John,
I have not tried to "Pressure" my PC, that is what I use a rotary for

I have not tried the cyclo..., the reason..., parts, pads, etc a LOT easier to get for the PC..., and locally too!
I get great performance out of it..., saves my "elbow grease" for other stuff.., like interiors, etc. It also works great on the carpet with the PC brush Dwayne sells. after vacuuming, use the PC with the btush..., you won`t believe the stuff it brings to the top(and my vacuum is quite powerfull), it really helps get ALL the dirt out.
I have not heard any negative comments on the cyclo..., or for that matter the PC. It seems to come down to a personal preferance and usually whatever you buy first, it the one you will favor

just my .o2

**Anthony O.** · 04-20-2003, 09:51 AM

I own two Cyclo`s, one PC, one GEM heavy duty orbital and 3 high speed rotaries.

The GEM sits on my shelf and makes a real neat conversation piece but thats about all the use it gets now.

One of my Cyclos I have had for about 6 years now and it has seen hundreds of hours of operation, it fell off a car once, it was dropped once by a trainee and the handle cracked but it has never broke down on me. I have never had to send it in for repairs and the only thing I have had to replace is the velcro cups that hold the pads.

My newest Cyclo is about 3 years old and again no problems.

My PC is about a year and a few months old and I only use it for cars that are in great shape. As John said when you need to apply some pressure to the PC it goes flat and no longer rotates but vibrates. The Cyclo on the other hand can handle the load much better and will remove more swirls and scratches than the PC will.

The dual heads really work the paint and the product BUT I have found the the PC does a better job when used as a application tool for waxes and sealants, especially when using a MF bonnet.

So both tools have their place, their pro`s and con`s. As I said before if your paint is in good condition and you just need to maintain it rather than correct it then the PC is a great choice over the Cyclo because of price.

Anthony

**jgv** · 04-20-2003, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by Balucanb
Anthony and Jeff Thanks. I have a question for you Anthony, or anyone I guess, I have been trying to decide as you know which polisher to buy I was leaning toward the the Cyclo but as of late have been having second thoughts. They both seem to be top notch. Other than the PC being a lot cheaper, what advantage does the Cyclo have other than the 2 heads? I ask because I am thinking that if it were really a big diff in quality everybody would manufactue them this way? I am starting to think that maybe the double head is more of a gimmick and a marketing ploy than a real advantage to the end result? Thoughts anyone?

Whichever you decide to buy, where are you going to? In Germany?

About the car wash, you can always buy a waterless wash product.

**Balucanb** · 04-21-2003, 12:16 AM

Originally posted by jgv

Whichever you decide to buy, where are you going to? In Germany?

About the car wash, you can always buy a waterless wash product.

Let me explain, I am in the US Army and I live in Germany now, I am close to Wurzbug. I have lived in Germany now for close to 10 years, not all in this location and not straight through this is my 3rd tour here.

**CharlesW** · 04-21-2003, 03:53 PM

Balucanb:
Don`t you have 220 volt electric service where you are? You will need a pretty healthy transformer to run any 110 volt polishers. If you plan on staying in Europe, a 220 volt unit might be worth looking into.
I think JGV went through this process not too long ago.

**jgv** · 04-21-2003, 04:00 PM

Yes I did Charles, I got my self a 10A 220/110 transformer, though I didn`t had the chance to test it yet, my PC should be delivered tomorrow (took almost two months to get here).

**Balucanb** · 04-22-2003, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by CharlesW
Balucanb:
Don`t you have 220 volt electric service where you are? You will need a pretty healthy transformer to run any 110 volt polishers. If you plan on staying in Europe, a 220 volt unit might be worth looking into.
I think JGV went through this process not too long ago.

Charles,
You are correct. However, Since Americans have been in Germany for 50 years (after the war, for you young`ins) transformers and such are no problem to find and if you happen to live in post housing (I chose not to) there is both 110/220 v there. As far as staying, I had considered it many times over the years, but in Sept I will have my 20 years in and have decided to retire in the USA, I have family (in-laws) in Germany so if I wanted to stay or come back it would be no problem, honestly though right now I am deployed in central Iraq and I would prefer to be anywhere but here! I dont think I will ever go to a beach again!!

**AutopiaAdmin** · 04-22-2003, 12:35 AM

We are all very proud of you!

I am very honored that you are here at DC, Balucanb.

**Balucanb** · 04-22-2003, 12:54 AM

Thanx,
I am glad to be here.

**biff** · 04-22-2003, 07:01 AM

When you say your PC just vibrates under a load, are you using a 7424 with the 5" inch counterweight that came with it or the 6"? Would that make a difference in how it handled the load?

I haven`t picked up a PC yet but I think I`m going to go for the 7636 since it already has the 6" counterweight and velcro backing pad. It ends up being cheaper than buying a 7424 and then buying the weight and backing pad (In Canada anyway)