Swirls/flaws, remove or hide?

[CharlesW]

There is another thread concerning SMR`s that hide or fill and those that truly remove swirls or flaws.
I thought I would start one for some discussion on what the general consensus of opinion might be as to whether removing or hiding them is the best route for hobby detailers to take. Some things that come to my mind, (right or wrong), follow.

1. This applies to my own vehicles that might be in my posession for several years. The procedures could be repeated many times during the time I own them.

2. If a product has fillers it stands to reason that less paint would need to be removed to achieve a satisfactory appearance.

3. Correcting the swirls or blemishes completely would probably require removal of more paint than I feel comfortable with.

4. My SMR is Meg`s #9, with fillers, I`m sure.

5. My finish products are AIO/UPP or AIO/S100. I also have some of the S100 Shine Enhancing Cleanser that may be worked in somewhere.

6. #9 is used whenever I see a problem. Usually in just the problem area. It is followed by either the AIO/UPP or AIO/S100 afterwards.

7. The AIO is used about every 3 - 4 months.

8. UPP or S100 is added about every 3 - 5 weeks.

Things seem to look good and since the appearance is what I`m after, completely removing any flaws seems like it might do more harm than good.
Thoughts or comments?

[ashsarna]

I follow the thinking that fillers are the way to go for your scenario.

I am in the same position, where I will have my cars for many years and am hesitant to remove the light swirls. I can attest to the modern type of paints that go on the volvos at least; they are not as robust as the volvos my dad use to have. I rather fill them in as I maintain the vehicles on a regular basis anyways.

[87 Monte SS]

Charles -

Good topic! These are my views on things...

If you think of it this way, maybe permanently removing the swirls will make more sense to you.

Suppose you DID try a compound and it removed the marks to your satisfaction. Then, after you protect it with UPP or your choice of sealant, the finish is virtually going to remain perfect until you introduce new swirls in the finish, which would be minimal since I am sure you wash your car in the proper manner. And if and when you did add some swirls, you would not need nearly as aggressive a product to remove them from that point on. Does that make sense?

So, in this way, you would only have to "correct" the paint once or twice the entire time you own the car, unless you plan on keeping it for a very long time. Conversely, the amount of paint you would need to remove would certainly depend on the severity of the defects, which probably aren`t that severe because of your car care preventive maintenance knowhow. But I think in your case, you summed up how you feel by stating "correcting the swirls or blemishes completely would probably require removal of more paint than I feel comfortable with", which is fine, too.

Secondly, it is obvious that newer car finishes are not as hearty as the older ones (my SS has a single stage enamel which I am sure that few clear coat/base coats can match in terms of thickness, at least that is what I have been informed over the years...). So, perhaps depending on the condition of the paint, a minimum of material would have to be removed to get it to where you want it. Then, protecting it would seal in the quality you have sought. It all comes down to how often you want to apply SMR`s with fillers versus doing it once and just maintaining it.

I guess that is my three or four cents worth... LOL

Brian

[JeffBruce]

My vehicles...( i keep my vehicles 3 to 5 years)
First time around, I would go after all the swirls. Do multiple round of DACP, SWR. Then I would just maintain it. Monitor daily/weekly.
Wouldn`t think about the same process for awhile, at least a year.. would probably use fillers if need`d.....
jeff

[NattyBumppo]

Good post Charles. You know, I posted something very similar to this at a Ford truck forum I belong to and got bloodied up a bit for it. In a nutshell I said if you lease a truck for 2-3 years or frequently buy a new one then go at it. If you`re like me and keep a vehicle 7-8 years then keep the medium or higher level abrasives to once or twice a year. I even said things like MEgs #9 don`t abrade enough paint to warrant much concern. One guy out of 9-10 who responded actually fully read and understood my point.

I agree with your point.

Natty

[CharlesW]

One thing that causes me a slight problem is how long I will keep a vehicle. One went in 60 days because I didn`t like it. Several were around a year or two, some 3 to 15 years. Had lots of new cars so that kick is gone. They just have to be nice. If I am happy with the vehicle, I`m likely to keep it until the first sign of rust, then it`s gone.

[jgv]

A long time ago (1 or 2 months) I had a thread called `to fill or not to fill` or so. This was exactly my main concern there, as Charles has explained.

In my car, I wouldn`t certainly mind to just fill them with the right product (I don`t yet know if I have one, though I have plenty now), but just in case, I removed about 95% of them, now it`s just keep it looking good.

Remember I started detailing my car properly a couple of months ago, before, it was treated as I knew then and could, with the products I had, so I had to do a great effort on making it right (you all remember, don`t you?)

[Dirty_South]

Hey freinds,

From a shop owners point of view....ALWAYS remove the swirls. Fillers are just that, fillers and they will fade as soon as your wax fades. If you remove them then, even after your wax fades the finish will still look smooth thus alowing your detail to go farther and in the end looking better. As far as removing to much paint....does that they should be abrasive but very minimally. I use 3M machine glaze....easy on...work it in and your good to go.

As Mr. Orosco says (and I srongly agree) "You must first PRESERVE......."

[Don]

Both sides have made some valid points...if the swirls are first all removed, then proper upkeep is done, the chances of new swirls being introduced are very low.

If the finish is polished out to where any remaining swirls are minimal, and a filler product is then used and sealed by a quality wax/sealant, then the finish maintained, the it`s also unlikely that new swirls will be introduced, and the remaining ones will for the most part remain hidden.

As with every other aspect of detailing: "What works best for you?"

Personally, I can`t stand swirls...the O/C (obsessive compulsive) side of me screams "GET THEM OUT!!!" while the small almost insignificant part of me that remains rational is (sort of) willing to live with micro-marring.

I know that #9 is extrememly mild and safe but effective, and the only thing that stops me from doing it more often it the fact that it will strip off the coats of Zaino already on the car.

[Gadfly]

Turtle Wax Clear Coat Finish and Restorer

Turtle WaX? Yes. And it works. "Restores & Protects modern clear coat finishes. Removes swirl marks and light scratches. Produces a brilliant shine. Micronsized Clear Coat Resins Fill in Minor Scratches and Swirls."

I`m new to this and I don`t have experience with IHG, #7 or Mothers S&G. But, I have tried this product on my black Santa Fe and the results make me more happy than I was before.

I had a couple of slight scratches on my hood that VM helped, but did not cure/hide. The Turtle Wax product did a better job. The scratches are now barelly visible.

The product was applied by hand with a terry applicator and removed with a MF towel. S100 was applied to preserve the work.

Black is such an unforgiving finish! Is there a better solution?