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  1. #1

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    Disappointed by DACP

    Well, after spending nearly $170 on a PC, backing plates, pads, and DACP, I finally got a chance to use it all today. I`m not impressed. Here`s my story...

    My car is a 2000 Grand Prix that I bought used last Fall. While I don`t think the guy that owned it before was too meticulous about it, I don`t think the car was abused either. But it did have its fair share of swirls when it got to me.

    I didn`t really think the swirls were too severe, so I started from the bottom of the abrasive scale as most people suggest. I tried Meg`s #9 because I could find it at Pep Boys. I tried applying it by hand, and while it did leave a nice slick finish, it barely did anything for the swirls.

    I figured I would need a PC, so I went and ordered all the stuff I listed above. The pads I got were Edge Yellow medium cut and Blue polishing pads. When I finally got everything together after my wash this morning, I went to work on the hood with the PC. I pulled the car into the garage, put the yellow pad on the PC, applied DACP liberally, and set to work. I started out on 2 speed just to spread it out a bit, then kicked it up to 6. After it was full speed I did front and back, side to side and diagonal swipes across the surface. After the white flecks of dried up DACP started to appear everywhere I shut it down and moved on to the next panel. I did the hood in quarters this way, then pulled the car out into the morning sun. My heart sank when I could still see plainly visible swirl marks. They were reduced a bit, but without being completely gone I hardly saw how I could be satisfied.

    Not knowing what else to do, I put the car back in garage and broke out the #9 with the polishing pad. I knew something less abrasive wouldn`t remove the swirls, but I thought maybe it would make it look a bit better. I did the hood with that combo, then put on some Vanilla Moose to help hide whatever swirls were left. I put it back in the sun just now, and while the shine looks damn good, I barely noticed because my eyes go right to the swirl marks.

    I`m not sure what to do now. I know that DACP isn`t the do all end all solution for swirls, but I was under the impression from these forums that it was about as high as you could go on the abrasive scale without stepping into dangerous territory. Now that its failed me, I`m not sure if I should try blowing more money and take the additional risk of stepping up to something more abrasive, or just accept that these swirls are here to stay, and accept that I spent $170 on a machine and products that made my finish look "a little better".

  2. #2
    JeffBruce's Avatar
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    Ok..Just my 2c`s....
    Ive use`d DACP for awhile now on my swirls , but, Ive use`d it with a Rotary and Edge black pad..
    DACP has abbrasives that needs to be broken down, and heat from the machines will do this, if not, you are just swirling tiny abbrasive around and around on the paint. I know someone who did use DACP with a PC and it took about three round in same area to get many of the swirls out.

    The ones I could not get were usually light scratches that I could just feel my fingers and look`d like swirls.

    I fi have only my Pc available, I use Meguiars Swirl Remover and then Meguiars Swirl Polish product to help hide the swirls. This does work but a month or 2 down the line you will see them again if you don;t up keep the vehicle.
    jeff

  3. #3
    ntwrkguy1's Avatar
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    nickis,

    Do you have any pics you could post? It`s tough to give advice without seeing the actual car. It`s pretty surprising that DACP didn`t do much for you, because it sounds like your application method SHOULD have worked.

    I`ve used DACP on dozens of cars, using both cutting pads and polishing pads, and have never had it not work. Occasionally, I`ll work the same area twice, but even that`s rare.

    The money you`ve invested in the PC is money well spent, though, even if it`s only for your own cars. After getting some practice in, you`ll be amazed at the results. One other thought would be to try a different cutting pad (maybe a Lake Country or Meguiar`s) to see if the results vary.

    hth,

    -Ntwrkguy1

  4. #4
    Obsessive Compulsive Detailer Jngrbrdman's Avatar
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    DACP works great on removing swirls, but sometimes you need to work it a little differently. I do have a couple suggestions for you.

    Don`t do the whole car before you check your work. If you aren`t working the product long enough to get results then you need to find out before you have spent a couple hours on the whole car. Do half the hood and then buff it off. I use a pair of 500 watt halogen lamps in my garage to check my work. If you don`t have those, then pull it out into the sun and see if it is doing any good.

    I use Meguiar`s pads because they are easier for me to get locally. I use the red pad which I would imagine is one above the yellow Edge pad. That might help if you bump up the pad a bit.

    I start by drawing a smiley face on the pad with DACP. Its a good way to get product on the pad without using too much. Too much is just hard to work with. Anyway, I start on 3 to spread it around and then bump it up to about 4.5 I work it with that speed for awhile and then I move it up to 5 or just past 5. I spend probably 5 to 10 minutes per panel before I turn it off and check my work. DACP works great, but it has to break down fully before you really see the results. Even after it starts spitting out clumps it is possible to get more use out of it.

    I usually have to wash the pad out 3 times on a normal sized car. If the pad loads up with DACP then its not going to be very effective at all. Keeping the pad clean is a big help when you are doing a job like this.

    I suggest that you try it again and use some of those suggestions if you weren`t doing that already. I`ve never had DACP disappoint me like it seems to have disappointed you. I think I would mostly credit it to using a pad that is too soft and perhaps not working the product long enough. Start checking your work more often and then situations like this won`t turn out as such disappointments. There is nothing worse than spending all day on a project and then not having it turn out right. If you check your work more often then you`ll know when its not working and when you have to go over it again perhaps.

    At least you had the good sense to buy the right tools for the job. I know a lot of people who would have just bought some $45 buffer at WalMart with a wool bonnet and tried removing swirls that way. You did good by doing your research and getting the right tools for the job. It takes practice to get it right, but you are definitely on the right track.
    ~ ~ www.OCDetails.com ~ ~
    Faster isn`t better. BETTER is better no matter how long it takes.

  5. #5

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    I do have plenty of pictures, if that helps. I should have uploaded them with the original post. Here is my car now, after DACP with yellow edge pad, #9 with blue edge pad, and Vanilla Moose by hand:





    As you can see, it doesn`t look that bad, but after getting what I thought were the right tools and supplies and taking my time with what I thought was the right process, its not the result I was after.

  6. #6

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    I do not know what technique you are using. In my first attempt to use DACP I also did not see results however it was my ignorance of the product and my inaccurate use of the PC. Here`s what I learned and with a few minor technique adjustments and BAM! SUCCESS! Hope it helps.

    After some trial and error, on my rather new PC, and a visit to Meguiar`s detailing clinic, I learned the PC`s motor must be engaged. That is done by pressing down on the head of the machine depressing it into the pad approx. 5 lbs. Essentially, it is as if you are stablilizing the machine without bogging down the machine.
    As far as my DACP application, shake well. Apply to pad and I usually start at 5 and work it in very slowly. This is a product that needs to be broken down well. Also, I noticed professional detailers working the product with many many overlaying their passes. this is not a quick product that requires good technique. I usually worked on a few panels and then used a MF towel to hand buff out.
    Since I have used the correct technique, the PC is now my friend. I don`t know why I waited so long to get one.
    If the swirls and scratches are deep and DACP used correctly didn`t do much, it may be time to see a pro with rotory experience.
    Good Luck...
    crobarcars@yahoo.com

  7. #7
    Obsessive Compulsive Detailer Jngrbrdman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by nickis
    I do have plenty of pictures, if that helps. I should have uploaded them with the original post. Here is my car now, after DACP with yellow edge pad, #9 with blue edge pad, and Vanilla Moose by hand:





    As you can see, it doesn`t look that bad, but after getting what I thought were the right tools and supplies and taking my time with what I thought was the right process, its not the result I was after.
    `After` pictures only tell half the story. Do you have any `before` shots? That doesn`t seem like damage that DACP shouldn`t be able to remove. I`ve removed much worse with DACP.
    ~ ~ www.OCDetails.com ~ ~
    Faster isn`t better. BETTER is better no matter how long it takes.

  8. #8

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    I do have some `before` shots, but I can`t tell which they are! I did half of my hood, then pulled the car out into the driveway for photos, so they aren`t chronological, there are before and after shots mixed together and I can`t tell which is which (I took my shots too close to tell which side of the hood it is, stupid idea). The good thing is that I didn`t do the whole car like you thought I did. I only ended up finishing the hood. I don`t have time now to resize all the photos I took and upload them somewhere, but maybe later I will.

  9. #9
    Detailing Hobbyist andriver's Avatar
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    What everyone else says plus you may need to reapply multiple times to achieve the results you are looking for. Good luck

  10. #10
    Agent Phonar's Avatar
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    never used it

    I never used DACP but it looks to me if you had used a rotary they would have come out. They dont look that bad in the picture but in person they could look worse. I`ve never used a PC so hopefully the guys that have can help you out.
    Good Luck!!!!!!

  11. #11
    What's that smell? ACE's Avatar
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    First of all, a PC will not remove every paint defect. It is designed to mimic the action of hand polishing, only a lot more consistent and even. This is the tradeoff for its safety. You didn`t waste your money at all because it will allow you to achieve much finer finishes than you can by hand. The fact that your car looks a little better is a good thing because it means you didn`t take off too much paint. I would try it again and just concentrate on the hood and nothing else. You were also very smart to use softer pads your first time out to see what the paint will tolerate. Now that you know the paint is hard, you might consider stepping up to something like the Megs red cutting pad. Take your time and try again. Don`t expect perfect results your first time out. You should also read this article on using the PC if you haven`t already. Good luck and have fun. http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums...1430487&page=1

  12. #12
    Darth Camaro 12/27/15 Don's Avatar
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    Originally posted by CrobarCars
    ...After some trial and error, on my rather new PC, and a visit to Meguiar`s detailing clinic, I learned the PC`s motor must be engaged. That is done by pressing down on the head of the machine depressing it into the pad approx. 5 lbs. Essentially, it is as if you are stablilizing the machine without bogging down the machine...
    As far as my DACP application, shake well. Apply to pad and I usually start at 5 and work it in very slowly. This is a product that needs to be broken down well. Also, I noticed professional detailers working the product with many many overlaying their passes. this is not a quick product that requires good technique. I usually worked on a few panels and then used a MF towel to hand buff out.
    Since I have used the correct technique, the PC is now my friend. I don`t know why I waited so long to get one.
    If the swirls and scratches are deep and DACP used correctly didn`t do much, it may be time to see a pro with rotory experience.
    Good Luck...
    :yeah

    I agree, you need to put enough pressure on the PC so that it had good contact with he paint, but not enough to bog the motor down. Also, working the product in is VERY important. Back & forth, criss-cross, side to side etc. Work a small area and overlap your passes like crazy. How long you buff an area is important too. You should spend at leat 10 minutes per panel, then wipe off the haze to check your progress. Only when that area meets your satisfaction should you move to the next one.
    Don M

    Proud owner of a 2017
    SUPERCHARGED
    Hyper-Blue Metallic 2LT 6/Manual
    Camaro


  13. #13
    Chemically dependent Tralfaz's Avatar
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    DACP is a great product for the price and for the results if you use it properly. Work it long enough, until it`s a powder, rotaries have an advantage here. Follow up with a good quality polish, eg. Menzerna FP etc. to remove any hazing. You may have to go over the areas with more than one pass etc.
    If I had better friends I wouldn`t drink so much!

  14. #14

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    Thanks for the replies everyone, I think I know what to do when I get some more time to try this again. Basically I`m just going to work it a lot longer. I probably spent 1-2 minutes on each panel at the rate I was going the first time, but it sounds like the key is really taking your time and letting the PC do its thing. Also, I think I will try to use some more pressure instead of just letting the PC float over the surface under its own weight. If all else fails I will consider moving up to a more abrasive pad, but right now I think I should be able to get this done with what I have. Some people have said that using using a wet pad gives greater cutting action. Anyone know if this is true from experience? Worth trying?

  15. #15
    The Fuzz's Avatar
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    A wet pad would probably hinder the abrasive action on the surface. When polishing there is no need to use a damp pad. Sometimes it is unavoidable because you just cleaned it or something, but I wouldn`t suggest going out of your way to make it wet. Your pad should be as dry as you can make it. How is the polish supposed to break down when its saturated? Ya know? The more dry the better.

 

 

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